主题:  【what is good drawing?】

zhuzhu

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#12004/1/11 19:21:31
以下是著名CG大师spooge demon关于绘画定义的一段比较精辟的论述。
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I really don’t know what good drawing is, I cannot define it absolutely. Traditionally, it is an academic idea, and the guys at art renewal would say that naturalism is good drawing. But there are people who have expanded the definition of what is good drawing. Take for instance Elliot’s girl at the top of this page. It is excellent! Everyone seems to like it. All those French dudes draw like a fish swims. But the proportions are funny and the arm is too short and the head is strange and the hip is missing, etc. So in the eyes of an academic purist this is bad drawing. So I would say that drawing is as subjective as any aspect of art, and has more to do with the emotional expression of form. If it looks wrong to you, it is wrong… to you. There is an old painting I did of a gladiator crouching. I was very happy with the gesture of it. But so many people says it looks messed up to them. So who is right? If you go with the expanded idea of what drawing can be, to include more expressive ideas, it becomes very subjective.

But the art renewal people and dim witted people in general, think they know what good drawing/art is. Even by their own definitions, some of the “living masters” in their “approved” gallery don’t know much, and it is pretty embarrassing in my eyes. I have watched them work first hand and listened to their narrations. I cannot prove that it is “bad,” because I do believe in my own conviction about how subjective things are. I can only say that I get cross-eyed looking at some of them. And if academic skill is the only thing you are selling, it is grim.

So as far as worrying about anatomy in these speed things, that is an involved question. But to make it simpler, if there is something that bothers the viewer, it is wrong to them. Others could like it. But usually these images are thoughts that have one or two goals in mind, like lighting or composition or even anatomy (maybe pay more attention then). I guess the shortest answer I could give is spending enough thought so that it does not stick out painfully.

Flushy, I am going to say something pretty harsh, so the rest of you go away for a minute I am roughly 15 years older than you, and I see a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses in your work and mine. You and I have a good handle on setting up a solid value structure and then playing with paint and light effects to keep the eye entertained. But you, like me, need more drawing. I just started about 3-4 years ago.. Don’t make the same mistakes I made, hiding behind piles of pretty paint, start now and learn more about drawing. Any painterly illustrative style depends on this more than anything. Your work will be better, faster, more flexible, and more profitable. You will learn faster as time goes on and the emergence of your own artistic personality will be much stronger. I had a teacher at AC that said plainly that in all the students he had seen, income was based on the ability to draw more than any other factor.

But you protest “you just said you did not know what drawing is!” That’s right I don’t, but I think that it has something to do with your own personal understanding the form and structure of the things around us, and figuring out how to express that on a 2-d surface. And to further explain my obnoxious comments about academic artists above, be very very careful of whom you listen to, and that includes me. I have seen way too many young artists get caught in the academic thing and never emerge. I can see them sitting before the feet of the robed master, as he tells tales of the greatness that they should all strive for, to immolate themselves on the pyre of 19th century masters, there is only one true path and all else lead to the dark side. So try to find people you can learn from, but a variety, not one (or one institution) who claims to Know, and says if you don’t listen you are Damned.

I went to ACCD and took some classes at Art Institute of California. Both are wonderful in their own way, both take themselves way too seriously. But that could be for marketing purposes. Nobody likes a wishy washy. “Pay us 100 grand and we will give you a fragmented idea of what we think art might be partially about” Not very good. Lets just say they have started to believe their own PR.

I don’t think this will happen to you, you are a little older, and maybe have a stronger personality and could tell them to shove it.

If you find yourself on your own, go to museums often, carry a sketchbook at all times (and even draw in it) and draw from life as much as you can. Learn about art history too. Draw and think while you are drawing. Spending 2 hours filling a background behind a head drawing with a 4H pencil is not the best use of time. I said all this before.

Ok if I slobber this much I have to post something.



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zhalimuto

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#22004/1/12 7:20:03
我不知道什么是真正的好图画, 我无法绝对定义它。传统上, 这是一个学术想法。并且艺术创新者会说自然主义是好图画。但有人扩展了好图画是什么的定义。例如在这页上面Elliots 画的女孩。他看起来画得太好了! 大家似乎都喜欢它。所有那些法国公子们画画都象鱼游泳。比例滑稽并且不是胳膊太短就是头画的很奇怪的,并且缺掉了臀部等。如此的绘画艺术在一名纯艺术主义者眼里这是糟糕的图画。所以我会说, 图画像任何一种艺术一样都是主观的, 更多的是以情感表示形式。如果对你来说,它看起来错误, 它就是错了, 我曾经画过一幅格斗者俯行的画。我个人十分喜欢他的姿势。但许多人说它看起来很乱。谁是对的呢? 如果你把图画的定义扩从出去, 包括更加表现派的想法, 它将变得非常主观。

但艺术更新派和一些“愚蠢”的人, 认为他们知道是什么好的绘画艺术。根据他们自己的定义, 就连一些公众认可的画廊的当代的大师也是无知的。有时我感到十分尴尬,我观看了他们绘画过程和倾听他们的叙述。我无法证明, 这是好艺术还是坏艺术, 因为我相信我自己的信念是多么主观。我能只说, 有些让我看得目瞪口呆。并且如果技巧是您唯一卖弄的, 那就太残酷了。

至于像担心解剖学这些事, 那是一个棘手的的问题,简而言之, 如果有的东西让看画的人不舒服, 那它就是错误的。但有可能其他人喜欢。这些图象通常是有一两个目标的想法, 像光或构成甚至解剖学的想法(可能给予更多注意) 。我猜测我能给的最短的答复是给画以足够的想法,多想就不会以后错误百出。

不好意思, 我要说一些令人尴尬的事, 我可能比你多活了15年, 在你们之中我看到很多相同的力量和弱点。你和我都有很强的造型能力,调色,用光,画出赏心悦目的画,但你和我都需要更多图画。我开始电脑绘画大约3-4 年前。不要犯我犯的同样错误, 把问题掩藏在堆砌华丽的油彩背后, 现在开始学画更多的图画。美术风格的形成比任何东西更需要更多练习。只有坚持不懈的练习,你的画才会更好, 更快更加灵活, 和更加有益的。它将有益于画技的快速地成长同时继续增强你自己艺术个性诞生。我有一位老师在AC教书曾经坦白地对学生们说: 你的能力将比任何因素更能决定你的收入!

也许你会抗议,说你不知道是什么真正的图画!? 正确,其实我也不知道, 但我认为它是有关形式和结构的个人理解 并且如何在2d平面的媒体上表现出来。进一步解释,我讨厌关于学术艺术家的评论, 请非常非常小心你正在聆听的讲演者, 包括我。我看到许多位年轻艺术家陷入了技巧之中不能自拔。我仿佛看见他们坐在穿长袍的大师之前, 听他讲伟大的传说, 牺牲在19世纪大师们的圣坛之上, 事实上只有一条道路通罗马,其他的都通向黑暗。如此尝试找到你能值得学的人, 不仅仅是一个人,要是多方面的人, 而不是那种自称为什么都知道,你不听他就会被谴责的人。

我不认为这将发生在你身上, 你们更成熟, 有更强的个性, 能劝告他们抛弃这种想法。 如果你想寻找到真正的你, 就经常去艺术博物馆, 带着速写本 (并且要用它画) 并且尽你所能去写生。还要多学艺术史,画的时候要多思考。我曾经说过很多次,花2个小时用4H 铅笔在一张头像之后机械地涂背景,不是对时间的最佳利用和明智之举……



zhalimuto

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#32004/1/12 7:26:52
pl send me the brush to dongmei@shaw.ca
thanks



zhuzhu

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#42004/1/12 10:19:55
yeah baby~~~ thanks a lot, i have email those brushes.enjoy it.


集超级美貌和智慧于一身的zhuzhu始终都是天下无敌的~!捏哈哈哈~~~

【Sketchbook of zhuzhu】

蓝鲸

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#52004/1/12 15:01:54
真的很辛苦,这么LONG的英文
文章试图阐述什么是好坏的绘画,不过好象没说清。但一些话还是有启发性的。
个人认为,其实根本就没好坏,世界就不存在这个属性,好坏只是人的心理想法。
艺术,是带有主观性的,因此艺术反映人们的内心世界。
每个人的好坏标准都不同,无法统一,也没必要统一。社会这个由亿万人群组成的团体,也形成了自己的好坏标准。也许社会的标准是主要的,而个体的是次要的,所以人的好坏标准也许是个个体与社会的综合体。
社会是在不断变化,人也在不断变化,所以美的标准也在不断变化。

也许,你想找一个永恒的标准,或最好的境界,那么你只有最后失望。因为根本就没有永恒的,最高与最低也只是你看的角度不同,位置不同。就象宇宙中的每颗星,你的高低想法是因为站在这个地球上。

艺术是为人类服务的,所以按自己的想法,如何去体现这一点。好坏都是人们执着的想法,不是一成不变的。


非常大鱼

shunkof

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#62004/1/12 15:09:19
的确很精典!!



你 好 从 前

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#72004/1/15 21:01:19
有种一语质地 的感觉
心理顿然开朗了许多
...————



sonic112

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#82004/1/15 22:12:47
zhuzhu拜托下回不要发英文帖子,请多照顾照顾我这样的“农民”谢谢了。



zhuzhu

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#92004/1/15 22:18:42
sonic112在上个帖子中说
引用:
zhuzhu拜托下回不要发英文帖子,请多照顾照顾我这样的“农民”谢谢了。


第2楼就是译文,以后发贴之前看明白了再说,不要出这样的【农民洋相】……


集超级美貌和智慧于一身的zhuzhu始终都是天下无敌的~!捏哈哈哈~~~

【Sketchbook of zhuzhu】

sonic112

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#102004/1/15 22:21:53
不好意思

谢谢

zhuzhu



no42cat

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#112004/4/12 13:55:23
画画呀……
常常越画越觉得自己画的很烂……心情郁闷啊
努力吧,努力吧。该学的东西好多……



西梅

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#122004/4/13 9:49:59
我一直在想一个问题,画画需要讲天份吗?
我一直认为,单从画画这个行为来说,我相信每个人都有"会画"的一天,只要付之努力;
但是真正把"画"画到一个高度,一种境界,那就需要一点天份了。
不知道我的理解是否正确。



无敌精英流氓【罗刹】

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#132004/4/13 10:05:21
西梅在上个帖子中说
引用:
我一直在想一个问题,画画需要讲天份吗?
我一直认为,单从画画这个行为来说,我相信每个人都有"会画"的一天,只要付之努力;
但是真正把"画"画到一个高度,一种境界,那就需要一点天份了。
不知道我的理解是否正确。


画画是一种理解,一种观察。每个人都有画画的潜力和天赋。学习画画的过程就是释放你体内潜在的那股力量。



fantasye

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#142004/4/13 12:59:11
翻译有些问题啊,有的几乎完全误导了作者原意。

譬如“Flushy, I am going to say something pretty harsh, so the rest of you go away for a minute I am roughly 15 years older than you, and I see a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses in your work and mine. You and I have a good handle on setting up a solid value structure and then playing with paint and light effects to keep the eye entertained. But you, like me, need more drawing. I just started about 3-4 years ago.. Don’t make the same mistakes I made, hiding behind piles of pretty paint, start now and learn more about drawing”

作者阐述关于他和“FLUSHY”的强项和弱项时说的强项不是造型,而是指明暗,光色等,恰恰他认为他们俩欠缺的才是造型(DRAWING)。另外作者说他三四年前开始的不是CG创作(CRAIG MULLINS从八十年代开始就接触CG了),而是开始意识到造型的重要性。

又如“And to further explain my obnoxious comments about academic artists above, be very very careful of whom you listen to, and that includes me”

作者并不是说他讨厌学院派评论,而是强调各位对学院派的观点要非常小心,包括他自己上面说的。

其实整篇文章提到“什么是好的DRAWING”篇幅并不多,主要还是强调造型重要性的。



无敌精英流氓【罗刹】

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#152004/4/13 13:03:40
fantasye:

谢谢指正,怪就怪那个zhalimuto,我以为他在加拿大混了几年,英语阅读能力应该没有问题。